Rankings as of 4/3
10u
1- LV Gamers
2- LVR
3- Southern Nevada
4- High Heat
5- Rawlings Tigers Camargo
6- Vegas Strong
7- Sin City Thunder
8- BLE
9 - Vegas Forge
10- Raptors
As said on the rankings page, 10U is the tightest at the top of all age divisions. The three at the top combined to go 11-1 in pool play of Spring Series, which is pretty awesome. LVR got some revenge on Gamers, but Gamers still has the edge based on overall tournament performance. LVR has been hampered a bit by injuries, but that's part of baseball. Once they get healthy, look out. Meanwhile, SN is just waiting in the wings ready to jump both above them. Some make the argument they could be #1, and they might not be wrong. Assuming these three at the top can keep their core players and maybe add a couple here or there, it will be pretty fun to see them over the next couple of years. These three could become forces not only locally, but nationally as well.
The oddity of the top 3 in 10u is that it really depends on who has what pitchers available. I think that LVR has the best #1 pitcher of any of the 3 teams but I think they also have a steeper drop off after that #1 than SN or the Gamers. If LVR were to play SN or Gamers on a random 1 off game, I'm probably taking LVR. Of the 3, I would have picked LVR to have the best chance of beating that #1 MVP Hustle team simply because they probably have the 1 kid with the best chance of slowing them down on the mound(who coincidentally also plays with that MVP team when LVR is not playing).
Now if we were having say a 5 game series between SN/LVR, SN/Gamers... I'm going with SN. I think their 1-6 are better than either the Gamers or LVR. The Gamers and LVR probably get a win the game they throw their aces, but after that I think SN wins most of the time. SN easily had the toughest pool play schedule of the 3 last weekend but were still able to get through at 3-1 and give up the least amount runs to make the gold. They were able to beat a Stars team that beat both the Gamers and LVR in Phoenix, still had pitching left to hang around with the #1 for a full 6 innings and had they won that, they still had some pretty good pitching available for the Championship. Put the Gamers/LVR in that spot and they would have been on fumes. And we saw just that in the Championship game for LVR, once their ace hit the pitch limit it was almost instant run rule. And that was playing 1 less game and against a weaker opponent in round 1. SN would have been the 1 team I would have picked to pull off winning that bracket gauntlet.
The fact that SN got dropped down this week after their performance is rather baffling. If anything, they had the best performance of any of these 3 this week with the teams they beat. They have a winning record against the Gamers, all square with LVR, the last thing you could look at is performance against common opponents where SN has the clear advantage. Yet they got dropped down? Ok.
I'll wrap this up with an unpopular opinion that might upset the rankings people here...
I think the Gamers are actually a fairly distant 3rd behind both LVR and SN at this point. 😮
No question that SN 10's are a terrific team. They dropped below LVR because LVR made the championship of this past tournament and SN did not. You make a sound argument that SN did have some impressive wins, definitely noted. One could probably make a compelling argument these three teams could be ranked in any given 1-2-3 order. Not sure, though, that the Gamers should considered be a fairly distant third considering their past three tournaments had them in the ship in an Arizona NIT, in the ship in an 11u majors tournament, and in the semi finals of a stacked local NIT
The Gamers final placements in these recent tournaments are the result of their scheduling. They've received good draws in all of them. Flip their schedule with SN in the Spring Series, do they even make the Gold Bracket? Maybe. As the #2 seed? Doubtful. Put them at the #4/5 seed. Do they make the semi's against a Stars team that blew them out twice in Phoenix? The Gamers got lucky that the bracket was setup for LVR to play the Stars in the semi's in Phoenix and not them. They both lost to the same team, but the Gamers get bonus points because they got put on the opposite side of the bracket? In the '11U' tourney, they got lucky to get the other 10u team in pool play, who got blown out every game by the way. If they get 2 11u teams in pool play, do they get to skip straight to the semi's on bracket day? Where they can blow their best pitcher to get to the championship with no real shot left of actually winning it.
All I'm saying is we should probably look a little deeper than the final placements. Maybe put a little more weight on quality wins and overall performance rather than simply final placement. We seem to do that in 11u. We didn't drop Xpress for not even making the bracket in the Spring Series and getting knocked out early in Phoenix. It's been all 'Well they had a tough schedule'. And for the record, I absolutely think Xpress is #1 in 11u regardless.
Making a championship game just to get run ruled in said Championship game isn't very impressive to me personally.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I mean no disrespect to the Gamers. I have a lot of respect for what they've been able to achieve while basically keeping the same core kids around for so long. It's a rarity these days with how quickly a lot of kids jump from team to team. It's a testament to how they run that program over there, they're clearly doing something right. You look at SN 10u now vs last year at 9u and their roster is vastly different. And obviously LVR 10u just started not too long ago.
As has been said before, there really isn't a 1-2-3 in 10U. It's more of a 1A-1B-1C. They can all beat each other and they can all make deep runs in tournaments. I think the Gamers have had a slightly better tournament record, which earns them the 1 spot. Call it fortunate draws, but their final tournament results are a little better. You can only play who is on your schedule. I think they earned it the right to keep the #1 spot for now after their 11U LVR victory a couple of weeks ago. Had they beaten 10U LVR this past weekend, it would be a no doubter for their #1 spot. But they definitely don't have that top spot locked down. LVR or SN could easily leapfrog them.
While I understand the argument comparing individual game results to justify ranking changes, it's not quite as simple as A beat B, B beat C, therefore A is better than C. Every game is unique based on pitchers used and lucky bounces here and there. Team A may have used their ace while B used their #6 pitcher. Using the A>B>C therefore A>C, Gamers are better than the Xpress. Gamers beat 11U LVR, who beat Lamorinda Titans, who beat Xpress. In actuality, I don't think you can make an argument that Gamers are a better team than the Xpress. Could they beat Xpress in a single game? Sure if their top pitcher is on, Xpress uses someone deep in their rotation and makes some mistakes. But the Gamers are not better than Xpress.
In reviewing upcoming events, I don't see one where Gamers, LVR, and SN are all competing. In the Baseball Bash, SN is in a small 10U division with three teams, Gamers are playing 11AA, and LVR isn't registered. Perhaps SN should take a shot at the 11AA division. It doesn't look too daunting for a talented 10U team.
Given they are playing different tournaments, it's going to be challenging to definitively say any team is head and shoulders above the other teams. So the debate will rage on...
@FH they are all 3 in the best of the west coming up in mesquite
I forgot about that one. Looks like a good lineup for those 3, not too many dominant teams. There's a good chance all 3 will be seeded highly and could face off in bracket play. Hopefully they don't face off until semifinals. That way Vegas would be guaranteed getting a team into the championship of this solid event.
1- LV Gamers (-)
2- Southern Nevada (+1)
3- LVR (-1)
4- High Heat (-)
5- Rawlings Tigers Camargo (-)
6- Vegas Strong (-)
7- Sin City Thunder (-)
8- Vegas Forge (+1)
9 - BLE (-1)
10- Sidewinders (NR)
Without much competition in Baseball Bash, teams had a choice between playing up in Baseball Bash, joining the NCS local event, or taking the weekend off. Gamers lost the 11U AA championship by 1 run after winning by 1 run in the semis. They have made a few deep runs in 11U AA events. It might be time to move up to 11U open divisions if there isn't enough 10U competition. SN moved up after winning the NCS event, leapfrogging LVR who took the weekend off. These 3 will continue to shuffle at the top.
Not sure who runs that new 702BaseballChatter instagram but I couldn't help but chuckle at their posted rankings and the comment from the poor SN kid asking how they could be behind the Gamers and LVR when they've beaten both. I'm right there with ya kid, still a little baffling, especially when they responded saying they used the results from the Spring Series as a big part of their decision. The same Spring Series event where, once again, the Gamers didn't win a single bracket game and got knocked out by LVR. Go back to the Fall Super Regional, Gamers also didn't win a single bracket game and got knocked out by... dun dun dun SN. The 2 biggest local events of the year and the Gamers got outdone by #2 and #3. But we're still riding with them I guess. Maybe the Josh Johnson effect.
This next local Cinco de Mayo NBT should be a good opportunity for High Heat and Rawlings Tigers to show what they can do in a majors division. Doesn't look like any uber elite teams, some decent out of state teams though and with our local big 3 all out in Mesquite that week, it's looking wide open. A little shocking that BLE still insists on playing up in 11u for this event, this would be a perfect weekend for them to play in a 10u majors division and possibly come away with some wins. Oh well.
Mesquite Best of the West should be interesting. Some decent out of state teams for that but not looking like any real big names, unless one of these unknowns shows up loaded. I can see all 3 of our 10u's going 4-0 in pool play and all making deep runs in the bracket part, as long as none get matched up early on in the bracket. Hopefully we see a semi-final and/or championship matchup between our Vegas boys.
On a side note, anyone familiar with how the PG rankings work? Apparently none of our local 10's are anywhere to be found even though SN beat both their currently(4/19/21) national ranked #6 and #9 teams. Some recognition for our local kids on a site like PG would be cool. Same with the TBR rankings. The Nevada rankings are disaster even though they are supposedly 'updated' and all of our 10u teams, at least, are ranked way low on the national part. Maybe we need a local rep to report results to these organizations to get some recognition?
TBR rankings has a difficult task trying to accurately rate teams from across the nation - very few who will actually play one another. It is kind of fun that they rate it all the way down to 150 teams or so, but the rankings are pretty bunk. They have teams listed that don't even exist
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the PG rankings are based primarily, or maybe even exclusively on the PG events. TBR/Travelball Select do their best to look at all major tournaments, but I think they are heavily biased towards the south. TBR is also biased towards the midwest. I can't remember what age group, but Ohio had as many teams in the top 200 as California. I've never seen a team from Ohio, but I can't imagine in whole that Ohio is equal to California in quality of baseball.
702Baseball Chatter is run by individual(s) from LVR. All of these rankings from both sites are just for discussion purposes. These discussions (who's better than who, who would beat who) happen every tournament weekend among families and players. Putting them online and discussing here or other sites is just an extension of those weekend discussions expanded to a larger audience. The rankings are subjective and it is impossible to create rankings everyone agree on. Aside from 10U, I think the #1 teams are about the only teams people agree on, and in 10U, I think everyone agrees that the three top teams are basically 1A, 1B, and 1C as all can make the argument they are the best in town. Hence the fun of the discussion.
For whatever reason, the rankings here weren't good enough for the people behind 702 Baseball Chatter, so they decided to start their own. I could be wrong, but it seemed like the 11U rankings were always a sore spot for them. LVR was never ranked above #4, despite winning only one tournament in the fall and making one more championship game in the spring. Then after losing to a 10U team, they fell to #8, starting a debate on if majors teams should automatically be ranked above AA/AAA teams no matter what. Should a team be above other teams solely because they seek out better competition, even if they haven't had tournament success? It can go either way, but this site knocked them back a bit as LVR still hadn't proven they were a top 5 team while other teams had won ships, albeit in softer tournaments.
Hot take here, but there's almost a bit of a superiority complex with the people behind 702. It's funny that only AAA/Majors teams are worth their time to rank. When their rankings came out someone commented they didn't believe them because they weren't backed by "Thunder algorithms". Seems a bit judgmental to me as I think the rankings here are fair and logical. Thunder have been around the 8U-11U age divisions for a few years while LVR have been around them for a few months. And yes, I know this isn't a "Thunder site", but there is definitely a connection to Thunder, which is fine. I might not agree with all of the rankings, but I can understand why they are the way they are.
I can also understand why 702Baseball Chatter's are the way they are. The rankings on this site seem much more results based while 702's seem more like who would beat who. Both methods are logical, but I found it entertaining that 702 felt the need to create new rankings which weren't dramatically different than what is found on this site. The fact that they went out and engaged a 10 year-old in debate was comical. Then Tyler Houston questioned them and they just threw up an emoji. So they have no problem coming after a 10 year old, but a grown man only gets an emoji response. If you're willing to explain to a young player why they are ranked the way they are, why not explain to Tyler why they are #4 instead of #2? I can make the argument that LVR should be #2 and Houston should be #4, it's not hard. I can also make the reverse argument. If you're willing to make the rankings and engage some people/children, engage everyone.
All in all, these are all just the same discussions that happen every weekend. Maybe going forward every organization that feels snubbed will create their own rankings to be debated as well.
Lol. That is what should happen. Every team should post their own rankings, and then someone can compile them and come up with a consensus ranking. Which probably wouldn't look much different than what is already posted here unless every team ranked themselves number one 😂